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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by stopgetinpopped on August 20, 2009
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I agree with Joe, this is a Mamba bite...swelling is rather typical of angusticeps bites....shame....I was calling it 5 years ago...this hobby is doomed by idiot friggin dealers selling shit for 100 bucks to anyone with a Benjamin...
This has mamba written all over it...
Cheers!
Terry
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by toddg on August 21, 2009
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Swelling is rather typical of… well a lot of venomous snake bites. Being green is also typical of a lot of snakes.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Cro on August 21, 2009
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Well, don't tell Skippy of USFWS about it, or he is liable to determine that there are 150,000 mamba running loose that folks have dumped.
And don't tell the USGS, or they are liable to come up with new maps showing just how the mambas will spread all over the SE United States.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by obeligz on August 21, 2009
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IF the snake really is a green mamba, there are really very few places it could originate from. Normal people never ever keep mambas, and I would even argue novice venomous keepers do not keep mambas either. This is not a good snake for the novice hot herp enthusiast either. All serious reptile keepers have a very healthy fear for green mambas, that is why mostly no reptile keepers in the US keep mambas.
People likely to keep such snake is the experienced venompus keeper with a serious interest for hot herps.
By word of mouth, the herpetoculturists in Hollywood probably know who has what type of hot snakes are kept in and arund Hollywod, and who is likely to have a green mamba.
From within the herpetocultural community, all the venomous experts in the area have their ases well coverd, I expect. Venomous keepers meet up at reptile expos, share pictures and trade different snakes. So I expect mostly all venomous keepers in the area are certain by themselves that this isn´t about them or people they know. This is all speculation from my part, but I would think that no green mambas are missing from responsible mamba keepers vivariums. everyone is scratching their head, wondering if it really could be a green mamba, and which idiot could have been fucking stupid enough to lose such animal, causing a wave of negative media attention to be directed towards the very fragile state of existence of responsible venomous keepers in the US.
Within the us hotsnake society, people talk with eachother and normally responsible keepers never keep their animals a secret, even if they are illegal mambas. People get mambas for study and a natural part of that study is breeding, including the study of the individual and how it matures from hatchling to adult individual.
The snake in article is 3 foot, a young snake?
We live in a small world.. The breeders and importers of green mambas in FL probably amount of a very small pool of people. Who is breeding and importing green mambas? someone already has the answer to that question, even if it is best left out of the public forum.
In order to shed positive light on this otherwise ugly incident, I bet the ecperienced venomous community in FL is exploring their network to the full, to find out more facts and make pieces fit, and make sense out of this story. I expect that the animal, if found, will not be a green mamba, and if it is a green mamba, it will not come from any responsible venomus keepers/breeders.
But again, the people who hould have raised or imported such animal into the US are but a few, so finding the possible breeder/ importer of such animal is not necessarily an impossible task for the Insider amongst expert vonomus keepers in FL/US. After all, mambas are not all that common in the hobby, are they?
In examination of statistics, I expect mostly all mamba keepers in the US have had nearly impeccable safety records looking back through the past 100 years.. We have hardly ever experienced a mamba escaping from a vivarium and biting a complete stranger. Normally a mamba is far more likely to bite it´s owner, and again looking at safety records, how many owners have been bit by green mambas in the past 100 years?
The chances of an illegal green mamba escaping from a responsible keepers, and biting a complete stranger out in the street is extremely, extremely small, in my logical thinking.
It is far more likely that the snake was released on purpose by some criminal in order to kill someone in a very specific way, or to make the headlines in the newspapers.
I do not think that this is the work or bidding of PETA or HSUS, but I do think it is plausible to to link this story to extreme eco-terrorism, it fits the signature. Extreme animal rights terrorism comes in many forms, in everything from violently trying to stop hunting, releasing fur animals, poisoning pets of VIP´s, illegally confiscating or stealing peoples animals, there is even evidence to suggest that extreme animal rights activists have killed people in the past.
Writing this post in public probably even paints a bulls eye on my fore head. I have recieved death threats because of stuff I have written on the net, and I have also experianced that my PC cas crashed very mysteriously, after I posted something animal rights related. Earler this summer my car was also very suddenly stolen after I posted some stuff about AR on the net.
AR terrorism or this sort doesn´t seem to come from a central source mostly. And mostly everyone in the US, whether believer of animal rights or not, whether venomous snake keeper or not, probably agrees that this type of incident is very unwanted. But in order for the media to cover it, someone has to to the dirty deed.
Mostly all medias are biased in some respects, and most medias are also biased towards animal rights or responsible animal husbandry.
In the medias there is a large abundance of articles doccumenting the ways in which some irresponsible animal keepers have come to burden or terrorise their neignbours, but I have seen little to no articles who ched light on the modern methods of animal rights extreme activism.
Extreme animal rights activists normally do not seek to kill people, I expect they normaly avoid this to the furthest extents, but extreme animal rights activists are just that, extreme and ative.
Releasing a venomous snake in an urban area is not as an ectreme as killing someone, but it serves the purpose of creating deadly fear and glowing media attention, political cash to the organizations the extreme AR activist is actively working in support of.
Recognizing that there is a pool of irresponsible active venomous snake keepers and a pool of active extreme animal rights activists, which one do you judge to be bigger, or more likely to stand behind this incident?
In fear of being misunderstood I stress my earlier comment, I do not believe that the boards of respected animal rights and animal welfare organizations such as Peta, HSUS and select others are likely to have a direct relation to this incident, not any more than the board of the SHHS or venomous reptiles.org anyways..
Thank you for hosting an awesome reptile website.
Rock on! ^_^
Best wishes
Vålen Gånev
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by stopgetinpopped on August 21, 2009
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Not sure what you are gettin at there Todd? Are you mocking me? Having no legs is also rather typical of alot of snakes....
My comment on swelling was in response to someone asking if swelling was part of a Mamba envenomation.
Cheers!
T-
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by pictigaster1 on August 21, 2009
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A friend went to the bite location and it is a exotic plant nursery .The people said the guy over reacted to being bit by what they think a harmless snake.This smells like crap.If it was a exotic at a exotic nursery it was not an escapee .This is only my opinion.What bothers me most is the experts on this forum and others that seem to accept it was a mamba with out ever seeing it.Even with anti venom the bite would most likely end you up in icu for several days in a extreme condition.But this guy recovers just like that with a little antivenom this story is crap.Show me the mamba and I will believe .Those say that it is a mamba bite with out the snake are in my opinion jumping the gun.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Nakita on August 22, 2009
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I'd be real curious to see the lab report or clinical abnormalities that could be documented as well although I'm sure that will never come to light.
From what I have read they showed the gentleman a book and he picked the snake out. I am sure from that point there were discussions amongst patient and physician regarding potential symptoms.
I'll share a funny story with you guys.
I was having some minor chest discomfort so I went to the ER just to be safe.
They threw me on a gurney, rushed me in the back and had me on an IV and oxygen within 10 minutes of being there. This combined with an immediate EKG, bloodwork and a swarm of medical staff asking me 100 questions all at once caused a flood of panic which in turn caused my heart rate to skyrocket which in turn showed up on the monitor I was watching.
By this point I was convinced I was dying, started to hperventilate and subsequently fainted.
Long story short, in the end it turns out I had acid reflux.
I know that sounds funny but I assure you the setting and commotion convinced me something was gravely wrong.
My point being is if this fellow identified a Green Mamba from a book and was then told the symptoms one could expect I can easily see how he could convince himself that these things were happening to him.
For our sake I hope they look into it more thoroughly before pushing through more kneejerk legislation.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Cro on August 22, 2009
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It would also be interesting to know if the fellow was only shown photos of venomous snakes, or, if he was also shown photos of harmless snakes.
That description of the snake being green on top, and yellow on the bottom still bothers me a bit. Yellow is such a distinct color, and mambas really are not yellow.
There are so many harmless snakes that have very distinctive yellow and green markings.
Did they find two fang punctures from the bite ?
Sure hope someone finds the critter, so this can be solved once and for all.
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by LarryDFishel on August 22, 2009
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"Even with anti venom the bite would most likely end you up in icu for several days in a extreme condition."
Actually, unlike most venomous snakes, one of the distinctive features of mamba bites is that the effects are often completely reversed very quickly by antivenom. How or why, I couldn't tell you, but it's a fairly well known phenomenon.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Cro on August 22, 2009
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Valen, I would disagree with your statement "It is far more likely that the snake was released on purpose by some criminal in order to kill someone in a very specific way, or to make the headlines in the newspapers."
The reason that I would disagree, it that if a green mamba were released, it would almost immediately disappear into the vegetation and probably never be seen again. How could the eco terrorist ever be sure the snake would stick around to kill someone, or create a scare ? Green colored snakes have a amazing ability to disappear from sight in green foliage very quickly.
If someone wanted to create fear, and make news paper headlines, they would release something that would be sure to be found, like a Gaboon viper, or a puff adder, fer de lance, etc. Those snakes would generate the rabid response from news folks, about them being among the worlds most deadly snakes, etc. And they would also stand a fair chance of biting someone.
Best Regards
John Z
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