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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by obeligz on August 22, 2009
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John,
Snakes are very god at hiding when they wish to stay hidden, but they also bask. Releasing a snake in an urban area where there are a lot of people, it is normally bound to get found at some point or drawl down into some hole and never be found.
In the last case do damage is done, but many snakes who are released or escape eventually get found.
venomousreptiles.org on green mambas;
"Their range extends from northern Kenya all the way to northern Pondoland in South Africa. They can be found in extremely high densities in certain areas, certain authors have stated that five or more specimens have been found together in a single tree! They are arboreal in nature and very seldom come on to the ground."
- http://www.venomousreptiles.org/articles/295
Further from the same source;
"Besides possessing and extremely potent neurotoxin, it doesn't readily show aggression. Its calm demeanor is often very misleading and amateur herpetologists could become victims of envenomations simply because they will drop their guard."
Being arboreal, such snake will normally bask in trees which are, how abundant in the area where this snake was found?
Also, a young mamba has meany years of life ahead of itself, if it can fend for itself and find food. Every day it survives outside there is a small chance some human will see it, so through 10 years there will be roughly 3650 cmall chances someone in the urban environment will see the mamba in the tree. I would say that a mamba who lives for 10 years in a tree in an urban enviroonment is very likely to be seen at some point, and create a lot of attention upon it´s sudden discovery.
10 years from now I am sure responsible animal companions will still be fighting the authorities to secure the long term well being of herpetoculture in the US.
Snake could have been released 6 months ago for all we know.
Different animals have different potential to scare.
I agree with you that perhaps Gaboon viper, or a puff adder, fer de lance make better candidates for release by the extreme eco terrorist but I would still consider mamba to be a good chose since they represent a very famous species which easily fascinates the human primate mind, primates having a natural fear of snakes and all..
I would also argue that the extreme eco terrorist who is perhaps out to create media attention will release different snakes in different circumstances, and at different times. Hollywood, mamba, Detroit, perhaps Vipera ammodytes or puffadder, or whatever was secretly available, or perhaps impounded by Animal police in another state?
I also believe that the point of such action is not necessarily that someone is bitten or dies, but merely to create a seed of example to catch medias attention and spark debate in the society.
Kind regards
Vålen
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by CSdeadboy2009 on August 22, 2009
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Thank you Cro for bringing order to this. can any one link the news storey from a credible news paper ? considering the coverage that the python got, you would think a Mamba bite would get the same if not more time on the news.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by wncherps on August 22, 2009
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I thought the Sun-Sentinal was a "credible" newspaper? Isn't it the main paper for Broward County, FL. Not saying that the story is true or not...
SR
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by southerncat on August 22, 2009
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Found out some very good information about this subject today at the Daytona show today.
Keep in mind that there has not been anything in any paper or on the news about this since thursday, and then it was only in the papers.
1) the man does not even know if it was a snake or a exotic plant/tree that he was working around that made the puncture wounds.
2) they only gave him 1 vial of AV
3) was released within 1 hour of arriving at the ER
Think those that were so sure it was a Mamba still think so now????
Bet they wouldn't be any more said about it in the news.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Nakita on August 22, 2009
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WHEW! Looks like we may have just dodged a bullet boys if this new information has merit.
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by pictigaster1 on August 22, 2009
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Except our own experts that are well known saying (FACE IT GUYS IT WAS A MAMBA) This whole story is crap Mamba bites are not cured in one hour.This makes me sick.All the people throwing accusations at shady dealers and the internet,no wonder we are in danger. When experts do not even know how to gauge a mamba bite .PURE CRAP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by Cro on August 22, 2009
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Wow, only one vial of SAMIR polyvalent antivenin ?
And a cable guy who is saying he does not even know if he was bitten or punctured by a plant ?
And a green over yellow 3 foot mamba ?
And, the guy was released from the ER in only one hour ?
And the venom 1 folks saying they know for sure this was a mamba bite ?
OK, I have slipped into a parallel universe, right ?
Best Regards
John Z
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by FLherp on August 22, 2009
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southerncat,
I would be interested to hear where this information was obtained.
Is the patient still hospitalized or was he released?
How many of you have seen a green mamba bite or treated one?
On to more interesting questions:
There are certainly some questions about these events, many of which may never be adequately explained.
Some of the news reports seem to present the statements of "officials" as a melange of persons, then mentioning a particular person to which all of the dross is then attributed. The person mentioned may not be the source of some of the erroneous information and should only be held accountable for what they actually said. Some of which may be worthy of skepticism.
I do take issue with labeling any of these events with any degree of certainty at this time. The treatment of a patient who appears symptomatic and describes being bitten by a green snake with a yellow (yellow-green/light green) belly on a precautionary basis is understandable - working diagnosis is a possible green mamba bite determined by color, length, symptoms observed. Is this a possibility? Certainly. Additionally, the presence of fasciculations would have been further indication that this was indeed a green mamba bite, but they do not always occur. I would certainly be wary of confirmation bias at this point, but if a symptomatic patient presents himself in these circumstances there are few alternatives.
Addressing the likelihood of it being transported to the US via cargo shipment. What goods are imported from the region and how much? The countries in question are way down on the list of US trade partners and the goods that are traded are coffee, textiles, petroleum products, etc. Not too many are likely to be the source of a green mamba. For certain items there is a fumigation schedule that must be followed which would likely result in the demise of the aforementioned passenger. If this was the source, how did the animal migrate from Port Everglades to Hollywood? Does it really matter if the plant on which the snake was seen was exotic? Not really, as much of South Florida's flora is exotic. You may have to admit that the most likely source was a snake imported for the trade. However, was this animal purchased illegally from the internet? No evidence to indicate this is so. Was it owned illegally or legally for that matter? Again there is no evidence for this. It is sheer speculation at this point in time. However, as no one in the vicinity has a VRL it may be more likely than not that it was illegally obtained and kept. I am assuming that a culprit will not come forward to obtain his comeuppance.
If the animal is found, which I would not bet on, that will remove any uncertainty I have at this time. Until such time I will reserve judgement - the scenario is possible, however unlikely.
A few choice quotes:
Certitude is not the test of certainty. We have been cocksure of many things that were not so.
Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd.
Voltaire
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RE: FL: illegal green mamba bite?
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by BGF on August 22, 2009
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If he was only in the ER an hour then it sounds very very unlikely to be an envenomation. I would be fascinated what signs were used to determine that actual neurotoxicity was present (versus fear and anxiety or psychosomatic symptoms). Sounds less and less plausible but the media damage has been done.
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