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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by BlackMamba88 on March 4, 2014
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Charlie0 Please try to explain your complete lack of logic to me. My neighbor has a dog. If it gets out it is a potentially lethal animal. My other neighbor has a cat. It's constantly killing mice, rats, and birds that carry disease. It could also be carrying dangerous parasites like ticks. If it scratches my child or my child pets it, it could also be potentially lethal. Now look at my snakes. If they get out what will happen ? Nothing because there is a foot of snow on the ground and they will instantly die if they escape. They can only survive outside a few months of the year. Couple this with the fact that there are already native venomous snakes around during these months that could and do get into people's houses and yards and be potentially lethal. There are even rattle snakes and copperheads in NJ. So please explain to me what your point was again ?
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by agkistrodude on March 5, 2014
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Good points Charlie O. I am one that does try to educate others, including my neighbors. Many will never see a snake the same way I do, but they will understand them better and not have the fear they did before, knowing their children are not in danger. One of my neighbors called every authority she could think of except the President when she found out through another neighbor that I kept snakes. I went and talked to her and now shes okay with it.(Plus law enforcement told her I was doing nothing illegal) People don't scream for a ban on autos, because they couldn't imagine living without their own. They don't scream for a ban on gas ovens, because they need one to cook. They won't demand a ban on dogs and cats because they love theirs. But a snake? "Who in the heck needs one of those poisonous things? If it gets out, it'll crawl straight to the school and kill all of our children". They're afraid of them and don't understand them, so they must be protected from them and banned. The majority of folks are ignorant to snakes, and politicians see votes for "protecting the people". Organizations like the HSUS and PETA push their agenda through those politicians.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by CharlieO on March 5, 2014
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Afternoon Mamba...
I believe you have misread my statements...
In a nutshell:
1) I believe in keepers' rights
2) Most of the people in the general community have very little understanding of what it means or takes to keep hots. They see the youtube idiots and the perception becomes that all hot-keepers are wacko nutbjobs endangering the entire world.
3) Complaining and writing off opposition to any position, including keepers' rights is counterproductive and eliminates your opportunity to bring those who disagree with your position over to your side.
4) As a keeper, it helps you to educate rather than denigrate. Put yourself in your neighbors' shoes...prevent fear and negative reactions by helping people understand your passion; don't dismiss them and make them your enemies.
I hope that clarifies things a bit.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by BlackMamba88 on March 5, 2014
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Whoever is reading this please don't listen to these people. What they are saying is completely wrong. They are dangerous and irresponsible and are going to get your snakes taken away. Here is why:
1) Keep your mouth shut: Don't go around telling people you keep hot snakes even if you are legally allowed to do so. Many people are inherently against them or just don't care enough to want to understand and will make your life a living hell if they find out. Don't try to educate anyone, don't go around explaining yourself, don't think your cool and try to show off your collection. Say nothing, do nothing, don't put your business on the street, keep it to yourself, and be prepared to fight when and where it matters. I had a friend who tried to "educate" his neighbors and they thought he was crazy and reported him to local politicians who then banned hot snakes in his county. If you want to educate people do it the right way and go on YouTube or to a reptile show where you can reach a large audience of people who are more likely to sympathize with you and no one knows you directly.
2) Identify the problem: Radical left wing political groups. I went down to my local republican head quarters and volunteered. I met and got to know allot of tea party people, a lot of local republican voters and republican supporters, and a lot of politicians. I even met Michael Grimm. I explained the issue to many of them and all them sympathized because republicans generally are against banning things. Especially the Tea Party people. Obviously this isn't an important enough issue to make a big deal out of but at least I influenced some people that really matter and got them to see eye to eye with me. Bringing the issue to local tea party meetings is a great way to influence people who matter. Talking to your neighbors does nothing but help you cause problems for yourself.
3) Attack when it matters: Don't go around yapping to everybody but when the incoherent, belligerent, and ignorant ban your pets crowd emerges from the dark corners of the earth sue them. Tell them no, what your doing is illegal, we have rights in this country, the right to privately collect, preserve, and own animals is one of them guaranteed under the ninth amendment and maybe a few more like the fifth or tenth depending on the case law and how you are being regulated. No explaining, no justifying, no begging, just sue them if you really care.
4) We should write off our opposition completely. The ban all pets crowd will never agree with us. Are you insane ? Never mind starting off at the point of " you're not banning anything" we need to start off at the point of "we need to make a law requiring all people to own at least one large constrictor or venomous snake in their lifetime to prevent bias against animals and the environment." When you are negotiating and you want to meet someone half way you don't start from the middle. You start from the point of I get everything and maybe some more and you get nothing and maybe give some.
Agkistrodude, your completely missing the point. It doesn't matter whether we own our property because we need it or we want it or "love it". Nor does it matter how the general public feels about it. If they want to ban or regulate it they need to have a just cause and ignorance or irrational paranoid fear isn't a just cause. If we all followed your logic we would still be burning women at the stake because some people thought they were witches. In a civilized society we don't encourage the unjustifiable Bloomberg "ban everything even soda" culture nor should we defend it. If you are a member of this site and want to and care enough about what is going on join USARK and the Tea Party (or some other Republican faction) and put this issue on the table. And if you have the Money like I know some people on this site who like to post themselves on YouTube do Hint Hint... sue. I will even split the cost with you. But in any case, please, don't listen to these other two people.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by CharlieO on March 5, 2014
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Marty...
Thanks for the kind words...hope all is well with you.
Mods...As always, thanks for the opportunity to post on the site.
Mamba...
To paraphrase Max Reger...
I have your commentary before me. Soon, it will be behind me.
Charlie
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by agkistrodude on March 5, 2014
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Mamba, I've done countless educational presentations over the years, my 1st one was 10 years before you were born. I try to educate all that will listen. I will not keep my mouth shut, as I have nothing to hide. If you do, fine, you keep your mouth shut. With that said, I don't go screaming it out or advertising it either. Heck, I've had sheriff departments call me in the middle of the night to remove snakes from homes. People know I keep snakes, they've known for years, it's no secret. I also have been involved in my local politics since before you were born. Back during Jimmy Carters days. I've been to many Tea Party rallies. I've written, emailed, and called Senators and Congressmen/women on these issues. And my logic is simple. Politicians only want one thing. That's to get re-elected. They will do whatever gets them votes. If they banned cars, or gas stoves, or dogs, (you wrote that) they'd be out of office by the end of the day. Their constituents (voters) need their cars, their ovens, and love their dogs. Banning snakes on the other hand makes them appear to the dumb masses that they are trying to protect everyone from those weird few who keep them. Reptile folks are a tiny minority in the voting world. They don't care if they don't get your vote. The AR groups that donate mega $$$ to their campaigns show TV commercials with cute kittys and puppies to get the dumb masses to go along with them and send them money. Educate the public. Have them let the politicians know that they will lose their vote over this issue. If they think for a second that their job is on the line, they WILL listen.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by BlackMamba88 on March 5, 2014
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I agree agkistrodude and it seems that we are all destine to be criminals. Although, I do think that if we sued the states over these laws the same way many gun groups , such as the NRA do, we can over turn many of them. USARK is good but they just lobby laws that are about to be passed. We need to sue the states that pass these laws. The people that have the money need to stop being lazy and sue.
Also, although we are only a small minority I am seeing a large percent of the voting block that are vehemently against banning things in general. Although they might not know much about keeping reptiles they may still be smart enough to reject banning them on principal.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by Carmai12 on March 6, 2014
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CharlieO, you have good points. I believe in educating the public as well. People are afraid of what they do no understand. Thanks for the sharing of you opinion.
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by CharlieO on March 6, 2014
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Thank you Carl...
I noted in your profile that your're interested in mdeical uses for venom, specifically Ulcerative Colitis. Good luck with it...I hope your efforts bear some fruit for you!
Charlie
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RE: Wild animals, including Venomous Illegal in WV
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by timberrattlesnake89 on March 8, 2014
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Hey BlackMamba,
Have you noticed that all states that are proposing a ban on private venomous reptiles collections are all red states including West Virginia, Louisiana, South Carolina. I really do not think you can blame the left-wingers on this one, it seems like this a complete republican agenda in these states. I am not a liberal but you really can't blame them on this one. One thing I have noticed those is most extreme right wingers say they are all for keeping liberty unless its something they disagree with, then well that should just be illegal.
Just an observation,
Phillip
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